If this isn't the truth.....................
A Obama Paradise!
AJB
21 - 40 of 77 Posts
Joined
·
4,710 Posts
I don't want to really get into this union/nonunion debate on this but I also favor nonunion as I've worked circles around union carpenters that make near double what I do. This is why the trade school I went to took only 2 years time off your apprenticeship. Or you could test out of the program. Not only was I more efficient but the end product double what they were doin. And a couple of them had the nerve to try to use my miterbox on the site. Naw! Carried a padlock and locked that bitch up! They didn't think much of it but I didn't really care. Lazy, expect everything to be handed to them and get paid handsomely for it and do shoddy work too boot. Not all are like that but I've seen plenty of em....
Joined
·
4,710 Posts
This is why I didn't want to debate the union thing again....trust me, not a farmer or a hillbilly but I'll take on any union carpenter....any day and come out with a better product. Worked around so called skilled tradesmen. If that's skilled I must be the fuggin Messiah of makin sawdust:EatingPopcorn:
Joined
·
1,879 Posts
You came to that conclussion from just reading a thread and nothing more...:cheers: your really really smart!
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
What a statement to say when you hunt a FARMERS field.
Joined
·
4,710 Posts
Nope he's always jumpin on guys azzes when they hack on the union. He's jumped mine once before. I'd like to have union wage and work as little as they do and as poorly as they do...the ones I've worked around anyway.
On a side note one of my best friends is a union carpenter and we get along great. Union or non was never an issue. I also have a good friend that is a union iron worker and works his ass off. So their not all bad. But when a guy shows up makin $26.33 an hour he damn well better know how to do his job. And if he was kicked off for not knowing his job, so be it
Joined
·
14,103 Posts
There's nothing keeping you from joining a union.
Joined
·
4,710 Posts
Nope, there isn't. Except morals and not wanting to put up with a bunch of ****tards that don't know their job and are there for the paycheck and not proud of their work. And all the beaurocratic BS that goes along with all of it. Trust me I'm not ignorant to the union shop. Been around them for 20 years. How those same guys that don't know their job and think that a nonunion nail bender is inferior and doesn't have the right to work unless they join the hall. Not to mention my friend that I spoke of, rarely had as much money as I did on payday with dues and all the other stuff they deduct. Plus no vacation or sick days and I get a month plus all holidays paid and a company truck. Hard pressed to get me to go union
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
Morals.
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
I didn't really have much of an opinion on unions until last year after I graduated college. In the last year I have worked as a non-union Industrial Automation contractor in several union factories.
Are there hard working union members? Most definitely. Are there lazy worthless non-union workers? Absolutely, but from my experience unions primarily protect the lazy. Not to mention they us scare tactics to bully people into joining the union and believing that if not for the union they would be making minimum wage and big business would be raping them. One of the places I did work many Union members wore shirts to work that listed all the non-union workers. That is pure harassment and should not be tolerated! But this tactic worked because I spoke to a couple people there who flat out told me that the only reason that they were a part of the union was because if they were not there would be a large target on their back and I understand where they are coming from. In that shop there was hostility towards myself and co-workers because we were non-union contractors doing work in a union factory. Everyone was watching us and I was written up for not wearing the proper PPE (personal protective equipment). The PPE I took off was gloves and at the time I was working on a laptop, 30 feet or more from the nearest equipment. Have you ever tried to type wearing gloves? It doesn't work so well. In the 30 minutes after I was warned to wear the proper PPE I counted over a dozen union workers who were violating the PPE code.
Also the department to department hostility is unbelievable. I witnessed a union mechanic turn in an union electrician because he unbolted an electrical motor and that was his job!
So please elaborate how unions are so beneficial.
Are there hard working union members? Most definitely. Are there lazy worthless non-union workers? Absolutely, but from my experience unions primarily protect the lazy. Not to mention they us scare tactics to bully people into joining the union and believing that if not for the union they would be making minimum wage and big business would be raping them. One of the places I did work many Union members wore shirts to work that listed all the non-union workers. That is pure harassment and should not be tolerated! But this tactic worked because I spoke to a couple people there who flat out told me that the only reason that they were a part of the union was because if they were not there would be a large target on their back and I understand where they are coming from. In that shop there was hostility towards myself and co-workers because we were non-union contractors doing work in a union factory. Everyone was watching us and I was written up for not wearing the proper PPE (personal protective equipment). The PPE I took off was gloves and at the time I was working on a laptop, 30 feet or more from the nearest equipment. Have you ever tried to type wearing gloves? It doesn't work so well. In the 30 minutes after I was warned to wear the proper PPE I counted over a dozen union workers who were violating the PPE code.
Also the department to department hostility is unbelievable. I witnessed a union mechanic turn in an union electrician because he unbolted an electrical motor and that was his job!
So please elaborate how unions are so beneficial.
Blueman,I will not get into a pissing contest about union-non-union. I have worked with some really good carpenters from our local,many of the rank and file guy's/gals are top notch tradesmen. However,most of them fall short of the craftsman label I expect from my employees. I need a guy that can go from building high end cabinets form a pencil; sketch on a napkin that are for a high end house to the same guy being able to tape drywall 30 minutes later. I have met very few members of our local that can do that. Besides.my issue with the unions is not the members as much as what their national leaders have become. Most,if not nearly all have a very left leaning near socialist viewpoint and look at business as the enemy and govenrment as the solution. Some of those guy's don't understand a darn thing about a business or how to run one but they want to run mine after I built it,thats right,I BUILT IT.
As far as joining a union,I think that option should always be available to ANYONE who chooses to do so,I just do not believe it should be mandated for all if someone does join,and the votes to do so should be kept private.
As far as joining a union,I think that option should always be available to ANYONE who chooses to do so,I just do not believe it should be mandated for all if someone does join,and the votes to do so should be kept private.
Dream,I don't hate or totally dislike Teddy,just his policies were not always what we think they were.I was blessed to ahve grandparents that lived during that timerframe and though he could walk on water. I liked the idea of preserving the wild lands for the future but his tactics were questionable sometimes. But,aren't they all? No different than now,most policies are questionable.
I got picketed of a job site in Chicago, where I was the only qualified operator in the state but refused to join the union. I received threats on my life because the equipment not running left 12 union concrete workers out of pay for a week. When they couldn't find a union employee qualified to run the equipment after 2 weeks they called me to come operate. My company charged them double, and they only were able to higher 6 union concrete workers . I must say, there is no way I would ever work for a union.
Joined
·
14,103 Posts
A few simple facts... States where public employees are represented by unions tend to have higher mean wages and lower rates of poverty. The unions raise everyone's wages. They also tend to have lower numbers of welfare recipients. Red states actually tend to have higher rates of poverty and lower average wages. Blue states tend to have higher average wages and lower poverty rates.
Joined
·
1,437 Posts
I would love to see these "facts"A few simple facts... States where public employees are represented by unions tend to have higher mean wages and lower rates of poverty. The unions raise everyone's wages. They also tend to have lower numbers of welfare recipients. Red states actually tend to have higher rates of poverty and lower average wages. Blue states tend to have higher average wages and lower poverty rates.
Joined
·
14,103 Posts
A little piece from the Business insider...
"Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is there any truth to it? Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking about the central: who really benefits
from government spending? If you listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states, packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.
The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.
As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States - the ones governed by folks who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut - are a net drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the bill.
Take a look at the difference between federal spending on any given state and the federal taxes received from that state. We measure the difference as a dollar amount: Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes. A figure of $1.00 means that particular state received as much as it paid in to the federal government. Anything over a dollar means the state received more than it paid; anything less than $1.00 means the state paid more in taxes than it received in services. The higher the figure, the more a given state is a welfare queen.
Of the twenty worst states, 16 are either Republican dominated or conservative states. Let's go through the top twenty.
Where can we find liberal bastions California, New York, and Massachusetts? California is 43rd, getting back only $0.78 for every dollar it sends to Washington. New York is 42nd, and one penny better off, at $0.79 per dollar. Massachusetts is 40th, receiving $0.82 for every dollar it sends to DC.
Go ahead and bookmark this article. The next time some smarmy teabagger tries to tell you it's liberals who are ruining the country and spending us into oblivion, kindly point them to the evidence that shows it is GOP states, not Democrat states, who are Welfare Queens. It is GOP states who spend more than they collect in taxes. It is GOP states who are out of balance, nationally.
See if they still want to cut off funding when it means no more socialism for slave states."
"Flip to any news channel in the past three years, and you can almost be certain to see any number of Republican governors, blustering about how Washington spends too much money and how they'd never spend that much money if they were President. It's a lot of tough talk, really. But is there any truth to it? Well, all of this tough budget talk from Republicans got me thinking about the central: who really benefits
from government spending? If you listen to Rush Limbaugh, you might think it was those blue states, packed with damn hippie socialist liberals, sipping their lattes and providing free abortions for bored, horny teenagers.The truth? Not so fast, Michele Bachmann.
As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States - the ones governed by folks who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut - are a net drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out in federal taxes
. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the bill.Take a look at the difference between federal spending on any given state and the federal taxes received from that state. We measure the difference as a dollar amount: Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes. A figure of $1.00 means that particular state received as much as it paid in to the federal government. Anything over a dollar means the state received more than it paid; anything less than $1.00 means the state paid more in taxes than it received in services. The higher the figure, the more a given state is a welfare queen.
Of the twenty worst states, 16 are either Republican dominated or conservative states. Let's go through the top twenty.
- New Mexico: $2.03
- Mississippi: $2.02
- Alaska: $1.84
- Louisiana: $1.78
- West Virginia: $1.76
- North Dakota: $1.68
- Alabama: $1.66
- South Dakota: $1.53
- Kentucky: $1.51
- Virginia: $1.51
- Montana: $1.47
- Hawaii: $1.44
- Maine: $1.41
- Arkansas: $1.41
- Oklahoma: $1.36
- South Carolina: $1.35
- Missouri: $1.32
- Maryland: $1.30
- Tennessee: $1.27
- Idaho: $1.21
Where can we find liberal bastions California, New York, and Massachusetts? California is 43rd, getting back only $0.78 for every dollar it sends to Washington. New York is 42nd, and one penny better off, at $0.79 per dollar. Massachusetts is 40th, receiving $0.82 for every dollar it sends to DC.
Go ahead and bookmark this article. The next time some smarmy teabagger tries to tell you it's liberals who are ruining the country and spending us into oblivion, kindly point them to the evidence that shows it is GOP states, not Democrat states, who are Welfare Queens. It is GOP states who spend more than they collect in taxes. It is GOP states who are out of balance, nationally.
See if they still want to cut off funding when it means no more socialism for slave states."
Joined
·
14,103 Posts
^^^^^^^^^
See above...
Joined
·
2,350 Posts
If you are a State union employee, PLEASE quit posting while at work, as part of my tax dollars pay your wage!A few simple facts... States where public employees are represented by unions tend to have higher mean wages and lower rates of poverty. The unions raise everyone's wages. They also tend to have lower numbers of welfare recipients. Red states actually tend to have higher rates of poverty and lower average wages. Blue states tend to have higher average wages and lower poverty rates.
Joined
·
14,103 Posts
I am not at work. I wish I could work 24-7, but Branstad put a stop to that. If I am on my union negotiated break, and make a post from my phone, that's none of your business because that is MY time to do as I please.
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
Why do you change the subject whenever a question is asked?
Blue statesd also have a higher inflation rate than red states too. Bullcan,I am a union member,and so is my wife,she is probably in the same union as you are. All I can say is that the way they have reported the need for reforming things like pensions and healthcare has done a big disservice to her and you as an employee. Public sector unions have a serious problem on the horizon and I doubt if you know what is coming and it has nothing to do with Branstad. Its coming from a little further east.
21 - 40 of 77 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
