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Old 06-19-2017, 01:37 AM   #1
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Default Poaching guides info?





Anyone hear a verdict yet on those poaching guides on the Mississippi? I sure do miss Toyes posts...
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:17 AM   #2
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Not seeing a verdict yet.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwi/pr...indictments-58

Three Charged with Federal Wildlife Violations
In separate indictments, but resulting from a common investigation, three men who operated as hunting guides are charged with violations of the Lacey Act and the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. The indictments charge:

Tony Toye, 49, Boscobel, Wis., owner and operator of Big River Guide Service LLC, in Boscobel;
Jeremy Schreiner, 34, Durand, Wis., owner and operator of Addicted River Guiding, in Alma, Wis.; and
Matt Raley, 33, Arbor Vitae, Wis., owner and operator of Hideaway Hollow Outfitters, in Lancaster, Wis.

The indictments charge each defendant, while guiding a migratory waterfowl hunt, with directing a client to continue to kill ducks after the client had killed his daily bag limit of ducks. The indictments allege that in each circumstance, the client was in fact an undercover U.S. Fish and Wildlife agent.

The indictment charging Toye alleges that the hunt he guided took place on October 16, 2013, the indictment charging Schreiner alleges that the hunt he guided took place on November 27, 2013, and the indictment charging Matt Raley alleges that the hunt he guided took place on November 23, 2012. Each of these guided hunts took place on the Upper Mississippi River National Wildlife and Fish Refuge.

If convicted, each defendant faces a maximum penalty of one year in federal prison. The charges are the result of an investigation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Office of Law Enforcement; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Refugee Law Enforcement; and Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. The prosecution of these cases is being handled by Assistant U.S. Attorney Daniel Graber.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:24 AM   #3
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If convicted will the USFWS issue future guide licenses to them?
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:10 AM   #4
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The charges say they encouraged a person to continue shooting after "they" had their limit. Now, are they saying if there are 3 persons shooting and one had killed THEIR limit that you can't help the others???? I'd like to know that. I've hunted with guides and groups and NONE of them ever kept tract till the total limit is killed. Hell, people don't even know which duck they hit.
I'd like to know the details.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:17 AM   #5
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Howard, you are NOT supposed to party hunt waterfowl. this stated in the federal regulations and no I have looked it up to post the link.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:20 AM   #6
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If one limit is reached, someone HAS to stop shooting, or someone is going to be charged with taking, or if nothing fell, attempting to take over your limit. I agree most times you don't know who shot what. But they have to be assigned to someone.

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Old 06-19-2017, 10:27 AM   #7
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and when you have the ducks in the boat, you had better have them separated into ownership piles; not one huge pile. each hunter should have their own ducks separated. If not you will get a ticket from a federal officer. a local CO may just warn you and then again; he may write you.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:26 AM   #8
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Boy, they should be ticketing most people. I've hunted near Desoto bend where we just threw all the ducks into a pile and it ended up 4 foot high. People came and went to the blind. Some of them breasted out what they wanted and others didn't even want what they shot. I never shot a bird that day because I did all the calling and no shooting because the guide was too drunk he couldn't stay awake. I'm betting most hunters don't even know the party hunting rule. How about the rule that your suppose to try to find all your birds. I see that violated all the time. I'm not advocating as I want individuals shooting their own birds, especially youngsters, but I can see two adults shooting their individual limits and have a 12 year old kid that can't a barn. I want them to shoot his birds and get the heck out of there.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ducks View Post
Boy, they should be ticketing most people. I've hunted near Desoto bend where we just threw all the ducks into a pile and it ended up 4 foot high. People came and went to the blind. Some of them breasted out what they wanted and others didn't even want what they shot. I never shot a bird that day because I did all the calling and no shooting because the guide was too drunk he couldn't stay awake. I'm betting most hunters don't even know the party hunting rule. How about the rule that your suppose to try to find all your birds. I see that violated all the time. I'm not advocating as I want individuals shooting their own birds, especially youngsters, but I can see two adults shooting their individual limits and have a 12 year old kid that can't a barn. I want them to shoot his birds and get the heck out of there.
the fact that you have been hunting all of these years and proclaim to be the "know it all" and don't know this law is very disturbing. why should an adult shoot the kids birds, let the kids have fun and shoot until they lose interest or legally fill their limit. apparently the "Limit" hunters didn't start with millennials.......
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:35 PM   #10
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My groups have always conformed to the laws but I'm just pointing out that others(probably 90%) don't see it that way. And laugh at me for following the law.
Now point here is that I believe the law should be changed to allow a boat or blind to have party hunting. It is not going increase the total number of birds that can be legally shot. Correct?????? Get em off the already crowded hunting areas so others can hunt "the good spots".
I have no problem keeping the birds separated but I don't see it done. You guys should have been hunting when we had "the point system" and see how much cheating and mud stomping was being done to stay legal. Even today 50% of hunters can't tell the sex and species of waterfowl they are shooting at. With the point system you damn well better know. But a few stomps down on the bird in the mud and all way ok, or you just leave em lay and leave.
I don't even shoot hens any more. And that's why I don't hunt early season but that is just my choice.
Good subject to be discussing though. I would like to know the exact phraseology the guides used in telling the customers to continue shooting.
Enough on this subject. Time to move on.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:08 PM   #11
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I just wanted to know if they went to trial. No need to argue argue about how you all poach.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Poaching guides info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ducks View Post
My groups have always conformed to the laws but I'm just pointing out that others(probably 90%) don't see it that way. And laugh at me for following the law.
Now point here is that I believe the law should be changed to allow a boat or blind to have party hunting. It is not going increase the total number of birds that can be legally shot. Correct?????? Get em off the already crowded hunting areas so others can hunt "the good spots".
I have no problem keeping the birds separated but I don't see it done. You guys should have been hunting when we had "the point system" and see how much cheating and mud stomping was being done to stay legal. Even today 50% of hunters can't tell the sex and species of waterfowl they are shooting at. With the point system you damn well better know. But a few stomps down on the bird in the mud and all way ok, or you just leave em lay and leave.
I don't even shoot hens any more. And that's why I don't hunt early season but that is just my choice.
Good subject to be discussing though. I would like to know the exact phraseology the guides used in telling the customers to continue shooting.
Enough on this subject. Time to move on.
are you listening to yourself? you literally just said you hunted by Desoto and stacked them 4 ' high? But your groups always hunted legally? come on now. it shouldn't be all about the numbers, we don't need party hunting.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ringbill View Post
I just wanted to know if they went to trial. No need to argue argue about how you all poach.
There is a long thread on this over at WI refuge forums. It appears they have pleaded not guilty and will be going to trial this fallish if my memory serves me correct, I would have to go back and look through the 30ish pages of posts to get more specific.
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